All General Discussion concerning WTA and ATP
<font color=brown>@ <b>Ace2Ace</b>:</font>
It must be patently clear to you that this girl has a generalized issue with the WS. Dogs? Really? Pretty clear she's calling their team dogs because actual dogs aren't part of the team.
good point Grosse#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#This incident was unavoidable as there is no justification for Serena venting as she did - the racquet point was legit in context. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#Though it would have been great had Carlos overlooked the tirade and not deducted a game which I feel could have affected the match outcome.#ed_op#br#ed_cl# #ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#Where were all the umps and spectators making a stand for Serena after the Capriati travesty.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#And where was the director - did he arrive on court to take a stand for a player during the Capriati match to ensure the match was righted?
Last edited by CrossCourtBH on Sep Thu 13, 2018 12:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Stephen Curry Says Serena Williams Handled U.S. Open Controversy with 'Grace and Class'
Curry, a friend of Williams, commended the tennis player for her sportsmanship following the loss.
“The way Serena handled the situation,” the Golden State Warriors player told Omnisport while touring Asia with Under Armour. “I think she handled it with such grace and class.”
Curry, a three-time NBA champion, said that reactions like the one Williams displayed are part of the game for athletes playing at such a high level, but controlling emotions can often be difficult.
“It’s tough,” he explained, “but with experience, you understand how you can control your emotions and how you can stay focused on what the task at hand is and that’s just winning basketball games and not letting anything get in the way of that.”
Last edited by Grossefavourite on Sep Thu 13, 2018 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Carlos does not seem to be fair to all players - such as in the Nishi Djoko match at Wimbledon - he warned only Djoko for racquet abuse though apparently they both threw their racquets.#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#I can understand Serena wanted to defend her character (of being coached).#ed_op#br#ed_cl#She needs to have that discussion with her coach - or find a coach who doesn't cheat during the match - because even if he (Patrick) finds this rule and its application hypocritical - as of now it is a rule.
Last edited by CrossCourtBH on Sep Thu 13, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Report: Naomi Osaka to sign with Adidas in richest apparel deal in women's tennis.
Naomi Osaka’s star power in her U.S. Open victory may have been overwhelmed in the short-term by the ongoing Serena Williams controversy from their championship match.
But her long-term outlook is just fine if her reported new apparel deal is any indication.
Osaka, 20, has agreed to an endorsement deal with Adidas that will pay her $8.5 million per year, The Times of London reports.
The contract would be the richest deal in women’s tennis, according to the report. Adidas is expected to announce the deal on Thursday.
Osaka’s global appeal
Osaka, a Japanese-born athlete with a Haitian father who lives in the United States, has broad global endorsement appeal. She’s also an outstanding young tennis player who just put up a dominant performance against Williams to win her first Grand Slam.
The deal will extend an existing relationship between Osaka and Adidas as the two sides approach the end of a four-year deal reportedly valued in the low six-figures annually.
Osaka, who also earned a $3.8 million paycheck with Saturday’s victory, may in fact be in line for another financial windfall. The New York Post reported on Monday that Osaka is also working on a car endorsement deal, though did not name the car company involved.
Last edited by Grossefavourite on Sep Thu 13, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#ed_op#font color="brown"#ed_cl#@ #ed_op#b#ed_cl#CrossCourtBH#ed_op#/b#ed_cl#:#ed_op#/font#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl# Overlooking that tirade? In that case, no player should ever receive a warning for verbal abuse anymotre; you tell all players: feel free to insult the referee for following the rules.#ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl##ed_op#div#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#/div#ed_cl#
"Never argue with an idiot - they take you down to their level and then beat you on experience"
"Don't wrestle with a pig: you both get dirty, but the pig actually likes it"
Instead of intervening and changing the course of the match by deducting a scoreline to the extent of a game - #ed_op#br#ed_cl#a warning could have been given.#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#Your point upholds the status quo - #ed_op#br#ed_cl#where many times rules are not applied to all players - but arbitrarily and selectively -#ed_op#br#ed_cl#and also many times not applied whether#ed_op#br#ed_cl#racquet abuse, coaching from stands, a player venting to the chair, time violations etc.#ed_op#br#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Last edited by CrossCourtBH on Sep Fri 14, 2018 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Was Serena Williams right or wrong? Three former tennis umpires explain
Josh Peter, USA TODAY Published 7:00 a.m. ET Sept. 15, 2018 | Updated 1:45 p.m. ET Sept. 15, 2018
Naomi Osaka stunned Serena Williams to win the US Open, but Williams' heated dispute with the chair umpire overshadowed the result. USA TODAY
Usp Tennis Us Open S Ten Usa Ny
(Photo: Robert Deutsch, USA TODAY Sports)
A week has passed since a tennis match divided opinion around the world, and at least three former tennis chair umpires remain split on the role of one their own – Carlos Ramos, the chair umpire at the center of controversy involving Serena Williams at the U.S. Open.
Magdi Somat, an Egyptian umpire who worked multiple U.S. Opens and Wimbledons, told USA TODAY Sports he thinks Ramos intentionally inflamed the situation during the women’s final.
“He wanted to be the tough guy and wanted to stick it to the tough girl and show his muscles to the other umpires,’’ said Somat, 52, a longtime umpire who was fired by Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) in 2014 for disputed reasons. “What happened at that final, it’s a joke and should have never happened.’’
More: Carlos Ramos, umpire in Serena Williams' final, has reputation of 'being firm but fair'
More: Serena Williams' US Open controversy comes down to these two questions
More: Instead of triumphing, Serena Williams diminished herself with behavior at US Open
Ramos gave three code violations to Williams, who raged at the chair umpire during her 6-2, 6-4 loss to Naomi Osaka and after the match accused Ramos of sexism.
Two retired chair umpires who worked at multiple U.S. Opens and other Grand Slams said Ramos was fair and adhered to the rule book during the match. But both umpires also said Ramos might have been able to head off the controversy if he had communicated better with Williams.
“That’s what it came down to,’’ said Cecil Hollins, the first African-American to achieve the coveted gold-badge status in tennis officiating. “What could he have said that would have alleviated the (tension)?’’
It’s unlikely the public will get answers from Ramos anytime soon, if ever. Tennis officials generally are prohibited from speaking to the news media without permission from the four major organizations that employee them.
“I'm fine, given the circumstances,’’ Ramos told Tribuna Expresso in his native Portugal Tuesday. “It's a delicate situation, but 'a la carte' arbitration does not exist. Do not worry about me!”
Three umpires who spoke to USA TODAY Sports addressed three primary issues, including:
► How the rule that Ramos used to issue a code violation for prohibited coaching is unclear even among experienced officials.
► Why there might have been confusion for Williams after she got a second code violation for breaking her racket, which resulted in a point penalty.
► And what, if anything, could have been done to deescalate the situation before Williams called Ramos a “thief,’’ at which point Ramos issued a third code violation, for “verbal abuse,’’ resulting in full game penalty for Williams.
Somat is an Egyptian umpire and why he no longer officiates in professional tennis is a matter of dispute.
He said he was fired for reporting to the ATP that a woman working with the tennis organization had been sexually harassed by ATP employees, including other chair umpires.
But in a copy of a letter posted online by Somat, the ATP accused him of being insubordinate, aggressive and disrespectful with a supervisor and, off the court, rude, aggressive and arrogant with a linesman.
Somat, who said he essentially has been blackballed by the leading professional tennis organizations, said he has considered Ramos a “good” referee with exceptional powers of concentration. But in assessing the women’s U.S. Open final, Somat offered no praise for Ramos, who holds gold-badge status.
“He was like a robot,’’ Somat said, adding that Ramos had “zero feeling for the match.’’
The problems, according to Somat, trace back to the 2009 U.S. Open, when in the semifinals Williams was called for a foot-fault and then approached the lineswoman who made the call and said, “I'm going to shove this (expletive) ball down your (expletive) throat.”
At a future tournament, Somat said, he gained “total respect” for Williams when he saw her go out of her way to apologize to the lineswoman she had confronted. But, according to Somat, the ill will for Williams festered among other chair umpires and was apparent Saturday when Ramos issued Williams the first code violation, for prohibited coaching.
“(Ramos) couldn’t wait to issue that warning without thinking even for a second to make sure Serena saw her coach and received the information or not,’’ Samot said.
Although Williams’ coach, Patrick Mouratoglou, later acknowledged he was trying to use hand signals to coach Williams, Somat said it would have been impossible for Ramos to confirm the coaching violation based on a careful reading of the rule. The section reads in part, “Communications of any kind, audible or visible, between a player and a coach may be construed as coaching.’’
Williams disputed getting any hand signals from her coach – “I don’t cheat to win, I’d rather lose,’’ she told Ramos – and Mouratoglou said he didn’t think Williams had seen him attempt to give her hand signals.
“Terrible judgment,’’ Somat said referring to Ramos. Somat added that Ramos should have quietly addressed the matter with Williams the next time the players changed sides and “everything will be fine after that and we all can watch a great match a proper celebration.’’
Hollins officiated in multiple Grand Slam events but sued the USTA for discrimination. In 2006, he signed a non-disclosure agreement as part of a settlement.
Although Hollins said the non-disclosure agreement prohibits him from discussing issues of race related to the USTA, which runs the U.S. Open, Hollins spoke freely about Ramos’ work at the controversial women's singles final.
“There is no umpire that ever wants to be in the newspaper or talked about,’’ said Hollins, 62. “Every umpire goes out there and makes an honest effort to do a great job every single match.
“From an umpire’s perspective, Carlos went right by the book. If you see coaching, you cannot unsee it. If it means that you give a code violation for it, then you give the code violation for it. That’s just the way it is. He saw it, he gave it.’’
Nonetheless, Hollins said, Ramos could have communicated better with Williams and said she appeared confused during the process.
In particular, Hollins said, Williams looked surprised when she was assessed a point penalty and a second code violation after smashing her racket. He traces it back to the first code violation when Williams continued to stress that she does not cheat.
“I know that,’’ Ramos could be heard saying.
“Thank you so much,’’ Williams replied.
Hollins speculates that Williams thought the first code violation had then be rescinded, and thus her anger intensified upon being assessed the second code violation, this time costing her a point.
“Sometimes I felt it was necessary, or chair umpires feel it’s necessary, to give a full explanation and let the chips fall where they may,’’ Hollins said. “It could have all been rolled up into a quiet conversation that he was having with Serena when she said, ‘I didn’t cheat.’
“I don’t believe that Serena fully understood the code and the code clearly states that the first violation is a warning, whether it’s coaching, whether it's racket abuse, whether it's ball abuse, whether it’s audible obscenity, it’s a warning. Her second violation of the code is a point penalty regardless of what it is.’’
Those are among the points Ramos could have clarified, according to Hollins.
“If he could go back, I’m sure by now he would’ve figured out the words he would have said to prevent any escalation,’’ Hollins said, “because that was the absolute last thing he was hoping for.’’
Norm Chryst, a retired chair umpire who said he officiated six men’s finals at the U.S. Open, could not be clearer with his assessment of Ramos’ performance in the controversial match.
“I thought Carlos Ramos did an excellent job,’’ said Chryst, 62. “I thought he enforced the rules. I thought he was not intimidated. I thought he communicated well. He kept his cool.’’
But in retrospect, Chyrst said, Ramos could have tried to signal to Williams that she was in danger or losing a point or game.
“I don’t think it would have been the right time after the first code (violation) because she was so emotional,’’ he said. “After the second code (violation), I thought perhaps he could have said something then. ‘You need to calm down because if you get another code (violation) it will be a game penalty.’
“Now whether she would have heard that or not, I don’t know, or whether that would have escalated it even more. But I thought that was the only time that he could have communicated with her, to say, ‘Gee whiz, you need to calm down.’
“I tended to say something after the second (code violation) or when the guys got really riled up. ‘That’s enough,’ or ‘You need to be careful now.’ And those were two lines I used to use when the guys got out of control.’’
Interesting article in USA Today giving the perspectives of 3 former umpires. I think what happened in the final had elements of all 3 opinions.
And to CrosscourtBH you are absolutely correct in stating that the rules are quite arbitrary and selective and not applied uniformly to all guilty parties. I have personally witnessed at tournaments, including slam finals, blatant (not discreet) coaching, tirades, racquet tossing and smashing, cussing, and time violations and the chair simply ignores it or calls it on one player while ignoring the same behavior from the opponent.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... l-facebook
Or course Serena is going to keep this going. Because she doesn't know the rules. She doesn't know it doesn't matter whether she saw her coach gesturing or not. And if she didn't know it, she should know it now an apologize to the umpire, the public in general, and her fans in particular.
But no, Serena is going to say she did nothing wrong, like people who commit murder and still plead "not guilty".
She is not going to say "I am sorry for my childish, unruly behavior". She's done this before, threatening to "shovel balls down the linesmen's throat", or calling the umpire "ugly inside", abusing umpires non-stop from her seat at the change-over". She sees nothing wrong with all that.
The woman needs serious counselling for her outburst. It's getting ridiculous.
Is there an "Outburst Anonymous" group she can join?
I can understand in the heat of the moment, Serena not realizing how bad her behavior was. But a week later, after having enough time to watch the video, to hear Patrick saying he was coaching, to still say she did nothing wrong???
That's some convoluted ego.
Last edited by Ace2Ace on Sep Sun 16, 2018 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
'Serena umpire' Ramos punishes Cilic after racquet smash<br />
16 Sep 2018From the section Tennis
Marin Cilic is given a code violation by Carlos Ramos - the umpire who was called a "thief" by Serena Williams in the US Open final - for smashing his racquet during Croatia's Davis Cup semi-final win over the United States.
Last edited by Grossefavourite on Sep Sun 16, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.